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Reflecting on Cere's and Ken Thompson's most recent posts...
I went to school (in the days of the dinosaurs) in a district with one jr. high and one high school serving four towns, so we had a diverse mix of students - from very wealthy to very poor, including recent immigrants (mostly from Cuba) who did not speak English.
Yet, the school was known statewide for providing an excellent education to all. There were only two or three kids from my elementary school who went on to private school instead of public. Students in the academic tracks often went on to highly-respected colleges (in my class, MIT, University of Chicago, Barnard, Columbia, Cornell, Mt. Holyoke, Earlham, Rice...). The high school had an adequate business ed department, but voc education took place at a county-run facility that had, among other departments, a REAL auto shop with real customers, a REAL cosmetology school with real customers, real computer training (in co-operation with IBM), and a real restaurant. It was assumed by employers that if you graduated from this school, you were ready to go in the work world.
I'm really wondering why it is that the schools worked so well. I know people stayed put in the town, so that contributed to stability. It also meant there were more eyes on you - if you acted up, the cop who picked you up told the barber, who told your uncle, who pulled you up by the collar.
I think there was also an assumption that the school would provide an excellent education, and the kids and families would do their part, too - come to school, do your homework, graduate. School waas not for screwing around (do that on your own time). Kids flunked. Kids were suspended and even expelled. Almost everyone who started ninth grade with me graduated...
Is this kind of situation no longer possible?
An aside - it wasn't the buildings - my jr high was built in 1922 and my elementary school in 1892 - half of it was condemned while I was there - we just weren't allowed on those floors. The gym was a former boiler room in the basement, and the playground was a blacktopped area behind the school.
I think it is a bit more than "college" track vs the non-existent "you can survive as an adult" track. We are an increasingly bi-nodal society and this impacts schools, cohorts and individual classes. There are children from families who engage aggressively in their children's health, well-being and education, and more often than not these children excel. Then there are those (for whatever reason) cannot or do not and these children start out behind and because they cannot keep up, they fall further behind. A system that promotes them w/o merit does them a disservice.
There is increasingly very little in the middle, certainly not the 68.2% one expects to find within one std dev of the average. In these Woebehere days an honest, objective observer in our schools would find in any grade that some are far above average (>1 std dev above) and the rest are far below average (>1 std dev below). Yet we dogmatically adhere to the notion that they must be treated the same and they can achieve the same outcome. Actual results do not support this.
As the bi-nodal nature of our society increases, schools, public and private, will respond. Because education correlates strongly with income (some see a causal relationship here) the economic and educational gap will expand. While the upper node will always be smaller (there is a negative correlation between educational and economic achievement and fertility) due to their status in society they will have disproportionate political influence. At some point they may seek to commoditize education for the "masses", establishing the goal of producing workers for their hotels, restaurants, shops, factories. warehouses and other businesses--in effect what they already have to do with our high school graduates to make them competent employees. This also reduces the tax burden public education places on them. After all, they will pay the largest portion of these taxes, personally and through their businesses, and their children, on the college track, are immune to any ill effects of cut backs.
Will we then ignore the sparks of genius that are born to those of modest means? Probably not. But, we will become very "Jeffersonian" about it and seek to deliberately identify those that could benefit by something other than "factory" education rather than pretending that everyone would.
Kim, no one is tired of your rants about Cross Keys. You are an everyday hero for bringing much needed attention to the ridiculous condition of the school and grounds. Keep on keeping on!
@Ken Thompson: "CKHS foreshadows what lay in store for public schools."
While I have respect for your perspective about parental choices and the possible fate of public education, I don't understand how this warning lines up with your arguments.
CKHS is a very, very unique case and I'm not sure I see how it is in any way enlightening on the subject of the possible fate of public education.
An aside comment regarding home-schooling: most (not all) of the folks I know that have chosen this path have done so due to their faith and their desire to ensure it remains part of their children's overall education.
An aside comment regarding home-schooling: most (not all) of the folks I know that have chosen this path have done so due to their faith and their desire to ensure it remains part of their children's overall education.
Speaking as both an atheist and a homeschooler, I can tell you that there are as many reasons to homeschool as there are homeschoolers. Often, parents choose homeschooling after trying their neighborhood school and finding it lacking. Frequently, these parents have been active volunteers, and because they are so involved, have a good sense of what is really going on in the school.
You might also be surprised to find out how many homeschooling parents are former school teachers themselves. I know I was.
I confess to ignorance of particulars on CKHS and am basing my observations on what I have read on this blog. It appears to have been abandoned, figuratively speaking, but the word hasn't filtered down yet. I see the same thing happening in a broader context.
As for homeschooling: "An aside comment regarding home-schooling: most (not all) of the folks I know that have chosen this path have done so due to their faith and their desire to ensure it remains part of their children's overall education."
When we started on that path we went to the annual conventions, and yes, certainly a large number of those in attendance were clearly concerned about a faith-based education. During the years we home-schooled the number of folks we encountered were increasingly like us--seeking better academics and not willing to embrace private schools. Perhaps our circle was too small.
A recent comment posted by Square Peg describes a dilemma facing more and more parents. On the one side is the wonderful new edu-trend du jour and on the other are those parents who are therefore thrust into the position of closing an educational gap caused by these experiments. Those parents that go that extra mile often realize they are home-schooling and their children are doing double duty. At that point there is only one reason to keep a child in public school.
@molly: "I can tell you that there are as many reasons to homeschool as there are homeschoolers."
Yep - I see the same thing. In my observation about religiously minded parents choosing home-schooling I was attempting to point out that it is not necessarily a condemnation of academic performance in public schools.
Many home schooling parents simply believe that it is a more natural, nurturing, and healthy environment for their child's development. Talk about the importance of class size!
In any case, I simply wanted to make sure readers realize there are many good reasons to home school and choosing to home school is not per se a direct result of public school performance (or lack of) in academics.
The great thing is, most people hear about the current state of CKHS and immediately ask how they can help.
Our local Waffle House management has agreed to allow me to hang a framed CKHS soccer jersey there. I saw a Marist football jersey and asked what that was about. The manager said it was the closest high school to their store. I pointed out there was a HS 4 miles closer at CKHS and he had never heard of it.
Then I shared the story of a member of CKHS class of '09 ... a kid 4 years in a refugee camp in Sierra Leone, finds himself in DeKalb on Buford Hwy, manages to achieve in the classroom and on the soccer field at CKHS to get a full ride at college this fall.
The jersey is on order and I'll frame it and the fine folks at Waffle House are going to allow it to hang right next to the Marist fb jersey. The manager is going to join us at The Library Coffee Co for the book drive and will provide Waffle House bookmarks. Come by Aug 6, 3-5pm and thank him for their interest and support.
With apologies to John Paul Jones ... I have not yet begun to squeak.
It's interesting to me that we don't talk much about the lack of rigorous writing assignments in schools (at any level really). Or, the grading standards for written assignments. Seems this blog has a lot of mathematicians with mathematically inclined children.
It really annoys me when my children bring home A's on writing assignments that have absolutely no markings on them. I'll see poor grammar, or punctuation mistakes. Maybe a non-sensical sentence. It never seems to be circled, or questioned by the teacher. Personally, I don't see how my children can make a 100 on an assignment that contains errors.
Are teachers no longer allowed to mark writing errors (within grade capabilies, of course, I don't expect first graders to be criticized for poor grammar!)? Or, is it just laziness? Too much homework to grade?
With texting, cell phone, myspace, etc. our children will never learn to write. Don't even get me started with spelling!
BTW, I saw an acquaintance at our neighborhood pool a few years ago. She was preparing work for her homeschooled children. The name of the book she was using was "Math for Christians." It was all I could do not to burst out laughing. What are the problems like? "Jesus has one loaf of bread...."
I agree, No Duh. The reading and writing programs are weak. I say this all the time - we need to spend much more time on early reading skills. Absolutely everything - math and science included - relies on good reading skills and an extensive vocabulary.
FYI for all interested. The Dunwoody-Chamblee-Cross Keys Parent Council will be meeting September 2nd at Dunwoody High School. Dr. Lewis will be the speaker.
No Duh said..."It's interesting to me that we don't talk much about the lack of rigorous writing"
And the Blog Rules say: "RULE #1: This is a conversation, not a writing contest, so we don't correct grammar, spelling or any other typo - we all know what we meant to say!"
As far as writing in our society goes, rigor is no more than the first part of rigor mortis.
@Anonymous: "This is not a race issue. It is a being poor issue."
The more I have learned about the history of Cross Keys, the more your perspective is supported. I have spoken to alumni from every decade of Cross Keys' history and it seems that they all felt inferior vis-a-vis nearby schools in terms of facilities, equipment, etc.
Many people might be surprised to know that Brookhaven has not always been dotted with million dollar homes. Even today, the majority of the housing stock is solidly working class to middle class and 25-50 years old like mine. So, even in the "hay days" of CKHS and it's Brookhaven-dominated attendance area, it was never posh.
Of course, now with the attendance being squeezed down to mostly the Buford Hwy corridor, the isolation and poverty level is higher than ever before.
I have met "white" alumni who lived along Buford Hwy decades ago and they saw themselves as the "underdog" or outsider school then. I think that the school is 85% subsidized lunch now and perhaps as "poor" as it has ever been regardless of the color or nation of origin of the students.
It will be interesting to see if the current efforts to rally support for the school have staying power. This past week, The Brookhaven Reporter made it clear they think it is time:
All that being said, I think too many in our community will never consider CKHS a viable option for their kids strictly based on the demographic make-up. Too bad, the young people I have met that have been through CKHS in the past 10-15 years all attest to the extraordinary experience of learning in such a diverse group of students.
@andi: "Kim - I do not have a child enrolled and I'm already exhausted from trying to figure out "the system."
Thanks for trying! Also, thanks for your note to the Dresden East Civic Association - it really helped the book drive!
The revival of community support for Cross Keys will take an extraordinary and unlikely coalition of very disparate civic groups and private sector advocates. It's a shame we have this as our baseline but that is where we are ...
I don't accept that public education at Cross Keys has devolved to simply a social service as described above. If it ever will, it has not yet.
So in the meantime, I continue to see the right and perhaps only civic course of action for me is to support my local high school warts and all.
For those interested in supporting Cross Keys HS students, here is the formal press release for the dedication event I've helped to sponsor for Abu Bangura and a link to the soccer coaches' wishlist:
Please plan to attend to show your support for the students and faculty. If you can, also order and drop off something for the soccer team. As always, if you need help deliverying items to the school contact me (kim at community radar dot com):
223 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 223 of 223Reflecting on Cere's and Ken Thompson's most recent posts...
I went to school (in the days of the dinosaurs) in a district with one jr. high and one high school serving four towns, so we had a diverse mix of students - from very wealthy to very poor, including recent immigrants (mostly from Cuba) who did not speak English.
Yet, the school was known statewide for providing an excellent education to all. There were only two or three kids from my elementary school who went on to private school instead of public. Students in the academic tracks often went on to highly-respected colleges (in my class, MIT, University of Chicago, Barnard, Columbia, Cornell, Mt. Holyoke, Earlham, Rice...). The high school had an adequate business ed department, but voc education took place at a county-run facility that had, among other departments, a REAL auto shop with real customers, a REAL cosmetology school with real customers, real computer training (in co-operation with IBM), and a real restaurant. It was assumed by employers that if you graduated from this school, you were ready to go in the work world.
I'm really wondering why it is that the schools worked so well. I know people stayed put in the town, so that contributed to stability. It also meant there were more eyes on you - if you acted up, the cop who picked you up told the barber, who told your uncle, who pulled you up by the collar.
I think there was also an assumption that the school would provide an excellent education, and the kids and families would do their part, too - come to school, do your homework, graduate. School waas not for screwing around (do that on your own time). Kids flunked. Kids were suspended and even expelled. Almost everyone who started ninth grade with me graduated...
Is this kind of situation no longer possible?
An aside - it wasn't the buildings - my jr high was built in 1922 and my elementary school in 1892 - half of it was condemned while I was there - we just weren't allowed on those floors. The gym was a former boiler room in the basement, and the playground was a blacktopped area behind the school.
Good points, guys. I think the newfangled idea that all students should be on the college prep track has only hurt all students.
I think it is a bit more than "college" track vs the non-existent "you can survive as an adult" track. We are an increasingly bi-nodal society and this impacts schools, cohorts and individual classes. There are children from families who engage aggressively in their children's health, well-being and education, and more often than not these children excel. Then there are those (for whatever reason) cannot or do not and these children start out behind and because they cannot keep up, they fall further behind. A system that promotes them w/o merit does them a disservice.
There is increasingly very little in the middle, certainly not the 68.2% one expects to find within one std dev of the average. In these Woebehere days an honest, objective observer in our schools would find in any grade that some are far above average (>1 std dev above) and the rest are far below average (>1 std dev below). Yet we dogmatically adhere to the notion that they must be treated the same and they can achieve the same outcome. Actual results do not support this.
As the bi-nodal nature of our society increases, schools, public and private, will respond. Because education correlates strongly with income (some see a causal relationship here) the economic and educational gap will expand. While the upper node will always be smaller (there is a negative correlation between educational and economic achievement and fertility) due to their status in society they will have disproportionate political influence. At some point they may seek to commoditize education for the "masses", establishing the goal of producing workers for their hotels, restaurants, shops, factories. warehouses and other businesses--in effect what they already have to do with our high school graduates to make them competent employees. This also reduces the tax burden public education places on them. After all, they will pay the largest portion of these taxes, personally and through their businesses, and their children, on the college track, are immune to any ill effects of cut backs.
Will we then ignore the sparks of genius that are born to those of modest means? Probably not. But, we will become very "Jeffersonian" about it and seek to deliberately identify those that could benefit by something other than "factory" education rather than pretending that everyone would.
I know my rants about CKHS probably grow tiring but it looks like all the ranting has convinced at least one editorial writer:
Time to Believe in Cross Keys
- The Brookhaven Reporter
Kim, no one is tired of your rants about Cross Keys. You are an everyday hero for bringing much needed attention to the ridiculous condition of the school and grounds. Keep on keeping on!
@Ken Thompson: "CKHS foreshadows what lay in store for public schools."
While I have respect for your perspective about parental choices and the possible fate of public education, I don't understand how this warning lines up with your arguments.
CKHS is a very, very unique case and I'm not sure I see how it is in any way enlightening on the subject of the possible fate of public education.
An aside comment regarding home-schooling: most (not all) of the folks I know that have chosen this path have done so due to their faith and their desire to ensure it remains part of their children's overall education.
@Anonymous: " ...no one is tired of your rants ..."
While I appreciate the assurance, I am very sure you are wrong about this! :)
Kim we keep hearing that the squeaky wheel gets the attention and that the families of Cross Keys have no no voice.
77 out of 106 books have been purchased for Cross Keys book drive.
Anonymous is right keep it up!
An aside comment regarding home-schooling: most (not all) of the folks I know that have chosen this path have done so due to their faith and their desire to ensure it remains part of their children's overall education.
Speaking as both an atheist and a homeschooler, I can tell you that there are as many reasons to homeschool as there are homeschoolers. Often, parents choose homeschooling after trying their neighborhood school and finding it lacking. Frequently, these parents have been active volunteers, and because they are so involved, have a good sense of what is really going on in the school.
You might also be surprised to find out how many homeschooling parents are former school teachers themselves. I know I was.
I confess to ignorance of particulars on CKHS and am basing my observations on what I have read on this blog. It appears to have been abandoned, figuratively speaking, but the word hasn't filtered down yet. I see the same thing happening in a broader context.
As for homeschooling: "An aside comment regarding home-schooling: most (not all) of the folks I know that have chosen this path have done so due to their faith and their desire to ensure it remains part of their children's overall education."
When we started on that path we went to the annual conventions, and yes, certainly a large number of those in attendance were clearly concerned about a faith-based education. During the years we home-schooled the number of folks we encountered were increasingly like us--seeking better academics and not willing to embrace private schools. Perhaps our circle was too small.
A recent comment posted by Square Peg describes a dilemma facing more and more parents. On the one side is the wonderful new edu-trend du jour and on the other are those parents who are therefore thrust into the position of closing an educational gap caused by these experiments. Those parents that go that extra mile often realize they are home-schooling and their children are doing double duty. At that point there is only one reason to keep a child in public school.
@molly: "I can tell you that there are as many reasons to homeschool as there are homeschoolers."
Yep - I see the same thing. In my observation about religiously minded parents choosing home-schooling I was attempting to point out that it is not necessarily a condemnation of academic performance in public schools.
Many home schooling parents simply believe that it is a more natural, nurturing, and healthy environment for their child's development. Talk about the importance of class size!
In any case, I simply wanted to make sure readers realize there are many good reasons to home school and choosing to home school is not per se a direct result of public school performance (or lack of) in academics.
@Ken Thompson: "Those parents that go that extra mile often realize they are home-schooling and their children are doing double duty."
That is simply exhausting to contemplate. I do not have a child enrolled and I'm already exhausted from trying to figure out "the system."
@andi: "Anonymous is right keep it up!"
The great thing is, most people hear about the current state of CKHS and immediately ask how they can help.
Our local Waffle House management has agreed to allow me to hang a framed CKHS soccer jersey there. I saw a Marist football jersey and asked what that was about. The manager said it was the closest high school to their store. I pointed out there was a HS 4 miles closer at CKHS and he had never heard of it.
Then I shared the story of a member of CKHS class of '09 ... a kid 4 years in a refugee camp in Sierra Leone, finds himself in DeKalb on Buford Hwy, manages to achieve in the classroom and on the soccer field at CKHS to get a full ride at college this fall.
The jersey is on order and I'll frame it and the fine folks at Waffle House are going to allow it to hang right next to the Marist fb jersey. The manager is going to join us at The Library Coffee Co for the book drive and will provide Waffle House bookmarks. Come by Aug 6, 3-5pm and thank him for their interest and support.
With apologies to John Paul Jones ... I have not yet begun to squeak.
Awesome!
Kim - I do not have a child enrolled and I'm already exhausted from trying to figure out "the system."
I hear ya. My oldest is 5 and my head is spinning.
Is it the Waffle House across from the Brookhaven Marta station?
Yes - at Dresden and Peachtree road. Nice folks. It'll be at least 3 weeks before I get the framing done and installed.
It's interesting to me that we don't talk much about the lack of rigorous writing assignments in schools (at any level really). Or, the grading standards for written assignments. Seems this blog has a lot of mathematicians with mathematically inclined children.
It really annoys me when my children bring home A's on writing assignments that have absolutely no markings on them. I'll see poor grammar, or punctuation mistakes. Maybe a non-sensical sentence. It never seems to be circled, or questioned by the teacher. Personally, I don't see how my children can make a 100 on an assignment that contains errors.
Are teachers no longer allowed to mark writing errors (within grade capabilies, of course, I don't expect first graders to be criticized for poor grammar!)? Or, is it just laziness? Too much homework to grade?
With texting, cell phone, myspace, etc. our children will never learn to write. Don't even get me started with spelling!
BTW, I saw an acquaintance at our neighborhood pool a few years ago. She was preparing work for her homeschooled children. The name of the book she was using was "Math for Christians." It was all I could do not to burst out laughing. What are the problems like? "Jesus has one loaf of bread...."
I know, I know, let the wrath rain down on me!
I agree, No Duh. The reading and writing programs are weak. I say this all the time - we need to spend much more time on early reading skills. Absolutely everything - math and science included - relies on good reading skills and an extensive vocabulary.
FYI for all interested. The Dunwoody-Chamblee-Cross Keys Parent Council will be meeting September 2nd at Dunwoody High School. Dr. Lewis will be the speaker.
Juxtapose for a moment...
No Duh said..."It's interesting to me that we don't talk much about the lack of rigorous writing"
And the Blog Rules say: "RULE #1: This is a conversation, not a writing contest, so we don't correct grammar, spelling or any other typo - we all know what we meant to say!"
As far as writing in our society goes, rigor is no more than the first part of rigor mortis.
@Anonymous: "This is not a race issue. It is a being poor issue."
The more I have learned about the history of Cross Keys, the more your perspective is supported. I have spoken to alumni from every decade of Cross Keys' history and it seems that they all felt inferior vis-a-vis nearby schools in terms of facilities, equipment, etc.
Many people might be surprised to know that Brookhaven has not always been dotted with million dollar homes. Even today, the majority of the housing stock is solidly working class to middle class and 25-50 years old like mine. So, even in the "hay days" of CKHS and it's Brookhaven-dominated attendance area, it was never posh.
Of course, now with the attendance being squeezed down to mostly the Buford Hwy corridor, the isolation and poverty level is higher than ever before.
I have met "white" alumni who lived along Buford Hwy decades ago and they saw themselves as the "underdog" or outsider school then. I think that the school is 85% subsidized lunch now and perhaps as "poor" as it has ever been regardless of the color or nation of origin of the students.
It will be interesting to see if the current efforts to rally support for the school have staying power. This past week, The Brookhaven Reporter made it clear they think it is time:
Time to Believe in Cross Keys
All that being said, I think too many in our community will never consider CKHS a viable option for their kids strictly based on the demographic make-up. Too bad, the young people I have met that have been through CKHS in the past 10-15 years all attest to the extraordinary experience of learning in such a diverse group of students.
@andi: "Kim - I do not have a child enrolled and I'm already exhausted from trying to figure out "the system."
Thanks for trying! Also, thanks for your note to the Dresden East Civic Association - it really helped the book drive!
The revival of community support for Cross Keys will take an extraordinary and unlikely coalition of very disparate civic groups and private sector advocates. It's a shame we have this as our baseline but that is where we are ...
I don't accept that public education at Cross Keys has devolved to simply a social service as described above. If it ever will, it has not yet.
So in the meantime, I continue to see the right and perhaps only civic course of action for me is to support my local high school warts and all.
For those interested in supporting Cross Keys HS students, here is the formal press release for the dedication event I've helped to sponsor for Abu Bangura and a link to the soccer coaches' wishlist:
2009 Graduate of Cross Keys High School to be Honored
Please plan to attend to show your support for the students and faculty. If you can, also order and drop off something for the soccer team. As always, if you need help deliverying items to the school contact me (kim at community radar dot com):
CKHS Soccer Coaches Wishlist
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