Sunday, March 14, 2010

In Case You Missed It

In case you missed this AJC article, there are some telling quotes that at least two of the BOE members are getting serious:

DeKalb: Need to close more than 4 Schools

“Coming from a day where there were no programs, I think we’ve gotten program-crazy,” said McChesney, a former teacher. “We think the program is the answer. But the answer is the teacher and the student. That’s what makes a good education.”

“There were as many as 10, maybe 12, schools that we were looking at consolidating with others,” confirmed board member H. Paul Womack, chair of the board’s budget committee.

With 101,000 students, DeKalb is the third-largest district in Georgia, but it has more buildings than any other school system. The district built dozens of schools in the 1950s based on neighborhood boundaries rather than on major thoroughfares, McChesney said.

“We were set up to cater to the local community, but we can no longer do that,” he said. “Our dilemma is the small schools are all located in one area. It’s not about north vs. south. You can’t deny the numbers.”



However, they are stil flat out wrong about so many DCSS surplus properties:
"The schools will sit empty until the real estate market changes, Womack said."

Surplus DCSS properties and closed schools can and should be leased short-term to small business, non-profits, churches, and even local cities and the county to generate revenue and save on operational costs.

It is disappointing that the BOE is focusing so much on cutting progams ("Yet programs must be slashed to meet the deficit, McChesney said. The only other option is to raise property taxes."), than looking at the bloated departments, like MIS, school police and Gloria Talley's army of instructional coaches/supervisors. It can't be all programs; some departments need to be scaled back dramatically with some services outsourced.

It is heartening to see that at least Womack and McChesney are talking "tough". These are serious times, and it is no longer acceptable for BOE members to allow perks like take home vehicles (which the school police dept. has taken full advantage of), hold onto their own pet projects (Zepora, Copelin-Wood), allow nepotism & cronyism, allow retired employees back in the system as consultants, or allow departments like MIS, school police and Athletics to go without forensic audits and personnel audits. Every DCSS department needs to have a forensic and personnel audit every 3 to 4 years. All fees, like Athletics, need to be studies and increased if appropriate.

Every penny spent from this point on needs to be accounted for in a transparent manner.

DeKalb County might have to close more than four schools this year, and as many as a dozen over the next two years if not sooner.

On Wednesday, the school board’s budget committee said the district must consider increasing the number of schools it shuts down at the end of this school year because of a rising budget deficit.

The school system shouldn’t delay those decisions and needs to look at the enrollments of all 147 schools now, board member Don McChesney said.

“If it’s obvious we have more than four that would be slam dunks next year, why not do it now? We just prolong our agony,” McChesney told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

DeKalb is facing an anticipated $88 million deficit, but that shortfall could rise to as much as $115 million, board members said. The district has 29 schools with low enrollments. Each closed school could save the district between $500,000 to $1 million.

“There were as many as 10, maybe 12, schools that we were looking at consolidating with others,” confirmed board member H. Paul Womack, chair of the board’s budget committee.

On Tuesday night, hundreds of parents filled a school cafeteria, upset over four proposed school closures made public. Many were angry the schools on the list were all in south DeKalb.

“We can not walk away from our responsibility no matter how distasteful it may be,” McChesney said. “We really need to get on it. It’s got to be done and it’s got to be done now.”

Members of the Citizens Planning Task Force, which is charged with making a school closure recommendation, said on Tuesday they didn't have enough time to make a decision. The 20-member task force, asked to finalize a plan by mid-April, said it might be better to hold off on the closures.

Board members didn’t like that suggestion. “If you all can’t do it, this committee will make the recommendation,” Womack said. “We’ve tried to be transparent by involving citizens of DeKalb County.”

Eleza Vaughn, who has children in kindergarten and fifth grade at Midway Elementary, said she understands that some schools must close to help meet the deficit. Her school is one of seven included in scenarios for possible closure. Vaughn, however, doesn't understand why the district plans to keep those vacant buildings. The district could profit by selling those properties, along with saving money on maintenance, she said.

“I understand we have to make sacrifices and I’m willing to close schools if they look at cutting everything,” she said. “I want to see them hurt as much as I’m sitting here suffering. I only see a budget that affects teachers and students.”

The schools will sit empty until the real estate market changes, Womack said.

With 101,000 students, DeKalb is the third-largest district in Georgia, but it has more buildings than any other school system. The district built dozens of schools in the 1950s based on neighborhood boundaries rather than on major thoroughfares, McChesney said.

“We were set up to cater to the local community, but we can no longer do that,” he said. “Our dilemma is the small schools are all located in one area. It’s not about north vs. south. You can’t deny the numbers.”

Many schools have well under the 450 students recommended by the state, which means less money from the state, McChesney said.

In addition to closing schools, board members are looking at slashing magnet and theme schools, along with other programs. Proposals also call for seven furlough days for teachers and staff, reducing 261 paraprofessionals and laying off 154 central office workers.

On Wednesday, 11th-grader Amber Worthy urged the board to spare the DeKalb Early College Academy from cutbacks. Through the Stone Mountain program, the 16-year-old said she is now attending classes at Georgia Perimeter College.

“If DECA is closed, my grades would be affected right now,” said Worthy, who has a 3.88 grade point average. “I don’t want it to mess up me being valedictorian or graduating with my class. I don’t want my peers to not finish my high school year together.”

Yet programs must be slashed to meet the deficit, McChesney said. The only other option is to raise property taxes.

“Coming from a day where there were no programs, I think we’ve gotten program-crazy,” said McChesney, a former teacher. “We think the program is the answer. But the answer is the teacher and the student. That’s what makes a good education.”

In addition to reducing Worthy’s program, the board is looking at cutting the magnet programs at Columbia Middle, Columbia High, Evansdale Elementary and Clifton Elementary.

“What we’re talking about is painful to you, but it’s no less painful to us,” Womack said.

What's next:

The DeKalb School Board is scheduled to adopt a tentative budget April 12 with final approval scheduled for May 10.

The DeKalb Citizens Planning Task Force has called meetings for March 16 and April 13 to discuss school closures. Public hearings will be held May 6 and 11, and the school board will vote on closures on May 14.

105 comments:

Anonymous said...

The retired teachers who came back in the classroom are paid at the last step. I do not understand why the rest of the teachers are stuck at previous steps, while the retired teachers are double-dipping in this manner. The retired teachers in our school are technology challenged, and the rest of us have to continuously help them with the eSIS, First Class, the Promethean Boards, scanning the textbooks, and taking their students to the bus. Many aspects of their jobs are performed by younger teachers under the name of teamwork. However, when it comes to jobs being cut, they should be asked to retire for good, before taking the jobs from young teachers whose salaries are much smaller, and who usually are self reliant when it comes to all aspects of the teaching profession.

Anonymous said...

How may retired teachers do we have? It might make sense for very specific circumstances, but retired teachers should be brought back on a) without any benefits, and b) only when absolutely needed. Our best substitute teachers who have the potential to be good teachers should be used to replace teachers on maternity and sick leave. Groom them like you would a double AA baseball player for the bigs one day.

Anonymous said...

10% of the educators at our school are retired teachers who are double-dipping. Instead of being placed on the first step of the salary schedule, when they returned into the classroom they were placed at the last step (where they were when they retired). Many of them make around $100,000 because they get a current salary of $68,940 (for a T5) plus a pension of approximately $40,000.

Anonymous said...

I'm beginning to wonder if the teachers aren't considering striking.

Cerebration said...

There's that 101,000 number again! Where is Meagan getting this from - Don? Is he saying that since the official count in OCT 2009 for this school year when DeKalb reported 99,406 students to the state - that we have somehow gained an additional 1594 students??? In 5 months??? Where did they come from??? Are we getting FTE credit for them from the state - since they weren't reported in October?

For the report, go to this link at the state DOE and ask for the number by district.

http://app3.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/fte_pack_enrollgrade.entry_form

Anonymous said...

"Is he saying that since the official count in OCT 2009 for this school year when DeKalb reported 99,406 students to the state - that we have somehow gained an additional 1594 students??? In 5 months???"

We've actually lost students with dropouts and other factors. Not sure why the software from our very, very pricey and well financed MIS dept. doesn't have real-time numbers on enrollment.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, should say "flush with cash" MIS Dept.

Anonymous said...

Paraprofessionals are needed in the classrooms. Why cut 261 positions? Most of them work with Special Ed. or ESOL students who need individual attention. They have small salaries, cutting their jobs would not make that much of a difference for the overall budget.

On the newest budget proposal the county estimated the cost of cutting 200 para jobs as saving the system $6,500,000. Making 100 retired teachers who are double-dipping retire for good would save the county even more money. Why fire those most in need of a job and whose salaries are so small, while allowing others to double-dip. It’s simply not fair.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:15, it's not fair. But the BOE doesn't want to make the hard cuts. They don't want to push dept. heads, like MIS, transportation, school police, etc. to justify the incredible growth in budget and personnel over the past few years. We clearly need para's, but if this BOE, and the administration, think para's can be cut with minla outcry, then that's their MO.

Cerebration said...

It's starting to look like there will not be a consensus on the Task Force. Actually, as I read the latest AJC article about Tuesday's meeting, it looks like the task force is not trusting the information given to them by the school system. The inference being that they are serving as scapegoats in making very unpopular decisions.

http://www.ajc.com/news/proposed-school-closures-divide-359026.html

The next meeting will be TUESDAY at 6:00 PM at the Bryant Center.

Cerebration said...

This could be additional bad news for DeKalb - it seems Gwinnett will actually be HIRING teachers next year... I have a feeling that our best may be applying.

● Teaching position cuts: The (Gwinnett) district will actually be hiring, since it is opening seven schools next year. No figures are available for 2011, but the district has projected 428 new teaching positions during the next four years.

http://www.ajc.com/news/metro-schools-to-slash-369626.html

Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for the people on the task force, because I totally agree Cere. The board is going to do what it wants to do, even if they don't have the best data to work with. Very sad, as the kids are going to be the losers.

Cerebration said...

And one more reference to the AJC for your reading pleasure... Maureen Downey has a great post today highlighting the bloat in metro systems...

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/03/14/metro-systems-bloated-inefficient-and-unfocused/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog

Cobb has 144 employees per 1,000 pupils while DeKalb has 157 and Gwinnett has only 113. Put another way, DeKalb has 39 percent more employees per pupil than Gwinnett and Cobb has 27 percent more employees per pupil than Gwinnett.

Nonni said...

@Anonymous 9:47 AM
The retired teachers who came back into the classroom are paid at the last [salary] step.

Anyone who retires from the DeKalb County School System is retiring as a member of the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia (TRS). There are very specific rules about retirees working after retirement -- and it appears that (1)Retirees who come back to DCSS to work are not reporting that to TRS and (2)DCSS is also not reporting the employment of retirees to TRS.

Here are the clear rules regarding TRS retirees working after retirement:
"As a TRS retiree you can pursue other employment, but doing so could affect the continuation of your monthly benefit. Per Georgia law, audits are routinely conducted, and discrepancies are investigated. If warranted, retirement benefits can be terminated and/or funds collected for benefits wrongly paid.

"All TRS retirees may engage in the following types of employment without jeopardizing their monthly benefit:
(1)Substitute teaching at the substitute daily rate;
(2)Private school teaching;
(3)Teaching in a state other than Georgia;
(4)Employment in the private sector;
(5)Employment with a State of Georgia agency;
(6)Self employment;
(7)Employment in non-TRS covered positions; and
(8)'Temporary' employment in a TRS covered position (not to exceed 3 months in a fiscal year).

"TRS retirees must report all employment in Georgia’s public school systems, regional and county libraries, the University System of Georgia, and RESA units. (Penalties apply for non-adherence.)"

Source: http://www.trsga.com/retirees/educate-yourself/working-after-retirement.aspx

Anonymous said...

Retired or Retiring teachers are being told that they have to wait one year and then can go back into the classroom for their old salary and their retirement. Doesn't work this way anywhere else that I know of. Retired teachers are teaching our kids.

This is to me is in line with the free lunch forms that people fill out not giving the right information. Nothing is done about that, so nothing is going to be done about this either.

Anonymous said...

A must read from yesterday's AJC:
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/dekalb-county-cant-lose-366585.html

by Mel Konner, MD, PhD (Harvard), Emory professor

"DeKalb: County can’t lose its science jewel" - .....Comparing students who had gone through the program with otherwise matched students who had not, the STT students were found on follow-up to be twice as likely to major in science in college, three times as likely to be involved in a career in science and four times as likely to have won an award for science in college.

The impact was already evident by the end of high school, but the difference was much greater for African-American males. Average STT students had a science grade point average 7 percent higher than non-STT youngsters, but for African-American males the difference was 19 percent. The number of science courses taken in high school was almost 4 percent higher for typical STT students than those who did not go through the program, but for African-American males this difference was over 20 percent.

Thus one of the most at-risk groups in our student population seems to benefit most from this program, which some people mistakenly think of as a luxury directed at an elite group. Something that works for such vulnerable kids should be held onto and expanded, not cut."

Anonymous said...

O.K. here's the deal with the layoffs.....It is easy for the BOE and CLewis to layoff those they don't see everyday or know personally, this is why they will only layoff the little people. They need to have Pat Pope do all the layoffs...she didn't mind putting hard working folks in the street last year and now the real NEED for Layoffs are present and they will slash the bottom and not the top. I feel the state needs to get involved in some of the decision making of districts that continually not make AYP. Why keep paying the same high salaries to these so called "special leaders" if they are not proving their worth. Start screaming fowl to the BOE make them hear the pleas of the real people who voted them in and hold their feet to the fire. They have too many folks in Title I, Magnet and soooo many other wasted positions making much more than Teachers with Master's and most of them have less than a 2 year education (Associate's Degree) This I know for sure, until the State Board of Ed steps in there will be continual hiring of Executive and Administrative positions in DCSS because who's gonna stop them....certainly not this blog or the people in DeKalb. Good Luck and my prayers are with all of you whose lives are being shuffled like a deck of cards by the BOE and Ms. Tyson (CLewis). Wonder who has the Big Joker!!!

Anonymous said...

Gwinett has canceled their job fair and is actually planning on layoffs.

Part of GCSS' budget challenge is the fact that they are opening new schools that they have to staff. Student growth has slowed a bit.

However, they are still glad to take DeKalb (and Fulton and Cobb etc)'s money. Gotta love GA's equalization grant.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 3:48

What are the Title 1 student achievement improvement numbers?
Go through the years available for Title 1 expenditure and AYP numbers for DeKalb Title 1 schools and look for improvement in CRCT and GHSGT scores. The website for Annual Title 1 DeKalb Student Achievement and Expenditure Reports:
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=104&CountyId=644&T=1&FY=2008


Are parents interested in talking to the head of Title 1 in Georgia?
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=104&CountyId=644&T=1&FY=2008

Are Title 1 school parents interested in seeing the majority of the $34,000,000 in Title 1 funds apportioned among the Title 1 schools with the local school personnel making expenditure?
and.....
Would Title 1 parents like to see Title 1 dollars follow the students like the Gifted dollars do now? Ms. Tyson decides how many Title 1 dollars the local schools can make decisions on.
Ms. Tyson's email:
ramona_tyson@fc.dekalb.k12.ga.us

Want to know if your child is in a Title 1 school?
Annual Title 1 DeKalb Student Achievement and Expenditure Reports:
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=104&CountyId=644&T=1&FY=2008

List of Title 1 schools:
Go to this DCSS website page:
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/instruction/improvement/

Then click on the right hand side of the page on the link entitled:
Title 1 Schools 2009-2010

Anonymous said...

Gwinnett is hiring math, science, and special ed.

Anonymous said...

DeKalb has all those posted as well.

I think there are always needs in those areas.

Nonni said...

@ Anonymous 3:46 PM

Retired or retiring teachers are being told that ...

If you -- or anyone reading this blog -- know of specific cases and have names of retired teachers back teaching on a full-time schedule or on a temporary assignment that runs for more than 3 months in any fiscal year (7/1 - 6/30), you should send that information to the Teachers Retirement System of Georgia.

Here's their mailing address:
Teachers Retirement System of GA
Two Northside 75
Suite 100
Atlanta, GA 30318

Here are the TRS phone and fax numbers:
404-352-6500
404-352-4885 (Fax)

Anonymous said...

We actually need many of those retirees because we can't get teachers in some of our critical needs areas. Would you have the kids just have long term subs? DCSS needs to make teaching more attractive in our system so we don't have problems filling some positions.

Anonymous said...

The cancellation stuff about GCSS was in the AJC. Given that they are just beginning to talk about their budget woes, maybe they haven't updated their webpage.

"And for the first time since 2001, Gwinnett Schools won't hold a spring job fair in the Gwinnett Center. The event has attracted thousands of teachers from across Georgia and the nation over the years looking for stable positions in a growing system. Gwinnett Schools now has a hiring freeze. Only critical needs positions -- special needs, math and science teachers -- will be filled for the next school year, said Jorge Quintana, a Gwinnett Schools spokesman.

A small job fair for those openings will be held at Peachtree Ridge High School on April 24."

Anonymous said...

I thought GA's Teacher Retirement rules were changed a few years ago to allow retired teachers back into the classroom full time. They can't work administrative jobs, but could work teacher jobs.

Do I have this wrong?

Nonni said...

@Anonymous 3:48 PM

... until the State Board of Ed steps in ...

Don't hold your breath. Kathy Cox has already made it clear -- by her lack of comment and inaction -- that she is not going to say or do anything about what is going on in DCSS. Taxpayers voted her into office and now she is throwing us -- and our children -- under the bus. I don't plan to vote for her in November.

Ditto with Brad Bryant. He is an affable guy, but such a political animal with aspirations higher than the state board of education. Those aspirations are dictating his lack of response. Taxpayers voted him into office and now he is joining Kathy Cox in throwing us -- and our children -- under the bus. I don't plan to vote for Brad again -- for anything. He cannot be counted on to do what is right, only what is expedient.

And what about the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS)? They will nail a rural school board that is not following Roberts Rules of Order in their meetings and withdraw their accreditation. The Warren County Board of Education was warned, after all. But, when a large metro Atlanta system plays fast and loose with taxpayers' money, likely may be committing fraud with federal funds, and puts educating DeKalb's children dead last on their list of priorities (after the DCSS Jobs Program for Friends and Family) -- where is SACS then? Of how much real value is their "stamp" of accreditation when they can overlook the massive wrongdoing on the part of DCSS and the DeKalb Board of Education?

Presumably Kathy Cox, Brad Bryant, Mark Elgart and Mike Bryans read the AJC. They are CHOOSING to not act on behalf of DeKalb's children.

SongCue said...

Correction, Nonni. We didn't vote Brad Bryant onto the Georgia Board of Education. All state BOE members are appointed by the governor.

Nonni said...

Oh -- one more thing ... there will not be a response from Kathy Cox, Brad Bryant, Mike Bryans or Mark Elgart to anything that is said on this blog. Why? Because they believe that if they say nothing, it will all blow over, be forgotten and they can move forward as if there was never a problem and our children's education was never at risk. Don't let them get away with that!

Here are their e-mail addresses:
state.superintendent@doe.k12.ga.us
brturner@doe.k12.ga.us (Kathy Cox's administrative assistant)
bbryant911@aol.com
melgart@sacscasi.org
mbryans@sacscasi.org

Anonymous said...

I went to the retirement meeting this fall. A teacher only has to sit out 30 days before coming back into the classroom.

Nonni said...

@Anonymous 5:30 PM

Is this a threat? I am taking it as a threat of physical violence. I am more than happy to turn this over to the authorities and request protection.

Nonni said...

@ Anonymous 5:48 PM and
@ Anonymous 6:31 PM

The rules have not changed. I, too, was at a TRS retirement meeting recently. It's true that there must be a "break in service" of 30 days before a TRS retiree may work in any position in DCSS or any other Georgia public school system. But there are other rules, too, as stated in my original post.

Please refer to the official source I provided in my earlier post for complete, accurate information: http://www.trsga.com/retirees/educate-yourself/working-after-retirement.aspx

BTW, the TRS rules for retirees who want to work after retirement apply to anyone -- teachers, administrators, clerical, etc -- who works/worked for DCSS and is covered under TRS.

Actually, Robert Tucker comes to mind. He makes more than $54,000 a year in DCSS Human Resources. But, then, Robert Tucker is Ron Ramsey's little buddy and partner in crime. Ron Ramsey -- king of the double-dippers and a state senator who who is paid an annual salary of more than $112,000 from DCSS though he is absent from his job for at least 40 days a year while the Georgia General Assembly is in session for which he is also paid more than $17,000.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Lakeside get its new principal out of retirement? They get paid a lot. Are there any other principals or administrators in DCSS who were retired and brought back out? Why? One would think there are plenty of non-retired people to take these jobs.

M G said...

There are different rules regarding retirement for teachers. In 2008, the legislature passed a bill that allowed teachers who had been retired for 12 months to return without a penalty, they must be employed as a classroom teacher, principal, media specialist, or superintendent.

Here's the link - http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/search/sb327.htm

Anonymous said...

onni,

I certainly wasn't serious. I definitely apologize for my "snitches get stitches" comment. I just don't think retired teachers who may be double dipping are part of the problem.

M G said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
scottatl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
pscexb said...

The comments I'm seeing with respect to retried teachers coming back to the classroom seem contrary to what I have heard. Did anyone hear Ms. Jacqueline Henry speak at the March 1 Board meeting? You can see and hear it at:

http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/pds24/vod/

Scroll to the bottom for this meeting. When you open the file, go to the 17:55 minute mark.

My understanding from her was that the Board required long term subs to be retired, certified teachers. This was to ensure uninterrupted learning for the students. She inferred that the pay (around $90-100/day) was not equitable when you considered the expectations were the same as full time teachers. As a result, many retired teachers are not interested in these assignments, which could compromise the education of children.

Think about the schools where most of the younger teachers are. Ms. Henry indicated that some could have 2-3 teachers out at one time for either long term illness or maternity leave. If the supply of retired, certified teachers is less than the demand, what happens to those children? Ms. Henry mentioned some principals try to 'bridge' several subs and paras together to hold down the fort until the teacher returns. Would you want you child in that class?

Anonymous said...

If you think Ms. Tyson's not getting upset about the parent emails she's been getting, think again.

The DCSS Fast Facts webpage yesterday (I saved the page just in case they changed it) said:
Total 13,842; Teachers, Media Specialists and Counselors 53.1%; Support Personnel 42.3%; Administrators 4.6%

Now the DCSS Fast Facts webpage says:
Total 15,859; Teachers, Media Specialists and Counselors 53.1%; Support Personnel 42.3%; Administrators 4.6%

The DCSS webmaster knew so little about what Ms. Tyosn wanted him to do that he only changed one figure - the Total (employees) to try to match her DCSS Superintendent's FAQ page.

The information on this DCSS webpage totally disagrees with the information provided on the Superintendent's FAQ webpage published last week. Take a look and compare.
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/files/3C2819BD7CDE4BA6B8BE01FC4A39343C.pdf

According to the "new, improved" DCSS Fast Facts webpage, DeKalb has 8,405 teachers and media specialists (53% of 15,859). According to the DCSS's Superintendent's FAQ page we have 7,031 teachers.

What happened to the missing 1,374 teachers?

Do any of the 1,239 administrators (is this really the number) who assist Ms. Tyson know the real personnel numbers?

When Ms. Tyson is quoting numbers to the BOE, has she checked her facts? Being off by 1,373 teachers is pretty upsetting.

Ms. Tyson doesn't know how many personnel DCSS has and what they really do. Wow!

Stay tuned. I'm saving this webpage too to see if they update it.

Anonymous said...

Cere -

I believe the "snitches get stitches" comment made to Nonni is threatening and was designed to shut down open discussion on this blog.

My question for you -- and I would like for you to answer it on the blog -- is how much unique identifying information do you get when someone posts a comment? For example, do you get their IP address when their comment is delivered? Therefore if the poster of "snitches get stitches" is a friend of yours would that person then have access to identifying information for a poster he/she was threatening or, at least, attempting to bully with the "snitches get stitches" comment?

Cerebration said...

FYI - I was out of town today, otherwise would have deleted the snitch comment earlier. At any rate, it's gone now. Please be nice to each other, people. I think we can all agree that together, we want to protect teachers as much as possible while insisting that more of the cuts come from the central office and other bloated staffing areas.

Tiredteacher said...

This is my first post. I have two questions. Does anyone have a bottom line on how much is being spent on legal fees? Was SPLOST money used to refurbish the new county offices on Mt Ind? They got new paving and we have the same potholes that were there ten years ago. I heard the Superintendent office is rather plush-we still have a leaky roof.

Cerebration said...

FWIW, Anon 8:46 PM, unlike many blogs, I do not have access to the email addresses of those who leave comments. (The AJC and Atlanta Unfiltered do have your email info when you comment there.) If I go to my stats, and spend a good deal of time, I could probably find the IP address of the computer from which the comment came. I can also find out the service provider. Then, I suppose, with some kind of legal intervention, I could demand that the service provider give the name of whomever holds that account. Etc... Bottom line - I've never done that, never would. And also - the only other administrator who has that level of access is Kim - and he doesn't even have the password to the stats. And if the truth be told - you all pretty much trust Kim even more than you trust me!

So - in answer to your question - no. We have no idea who any of you are! Really! This doesn't matter if you comment as "Anonymous" or use a clever moniker. Either way, we don't know who you are.

However, your history on your own computer will show if you visited the blog and the pages you viewed, so I highly recommend that you not blog during working hours if you work for DCSS, as you boss can easily see the web pages you view.

Anonymous said...

Instructional Coaches (cost - $7,712,452 a year)

Another great quote on Maureen Downey's blog from the Clayton County teacher "Hard Working Classroom Teacher":

"There is flexibility in how schools utilize federal grants. It is also up to the school to utilize positions effectively. If a school has to have a “coach” position to meet the requirements of a specific grant, that position can be used to actually provide instruction to children. These positions need to be on the same schedule as regular classroom teachers and responsible throughout the day for instruction. Sitting in rooms and offices is a waste of the taxpayer money and does not increase the achievement of students."

Cerebration said...

One more comment - Anon 7:54 PM - thank you for apologizing - that was very respectable. I don't think people realize how written comments can be misinterpreted when there is no voice infliction or facial expression to go with... usually no harm is meant - we are pretty much all good folks here with the same mission in mind.

Anonymous said...

DCSS MIS can see anything you have done or are doing at any time on your work desktop or laptop, while at work, and you won't even know they're looking.

Anonymous said...

Cere -

What Anonymous 7:54 said was, at best, a bullying remark and, at worst, a threat. It was not an attempt at humor. There is nothing amusing about bullying or threatening. Yet, isn't it always the case that a bully will back down -- as Anonymous 7:54 did -- when met with a show of strength?

Patting Anonymous 7:54 on the back for "apologizing" and allowing other posters (i.e., scottatl) to imply that Nonni was at fault for not "chilling out" is just wrong.

Nonni -- I hope you copied and saved the original exchange with Anonymous 7:54. You might give it to a few others, too.

Anonymous said...

DeKalb now says its gap could hit $115 million.

http://www.ajc.com/news/metro-schools-to-slash-369626.html

Cerebration said...

I do hear you, Anon. One time, well over a year ago, I actually shut down this blog due to verbal threats I received against me and implying against my children. It was very disturbing, obviously. People, really, when you say things to others in a public forum, you really have to try to be as kind as possible. I try to monitor this blog carefully, but sometimes I'm away for several hours at a time. (I actually do other things!)

Anonymous said...

http://www.ajc.com/news/metro-schools-to-slash-369626.html

DeKalb County

The county anticipates a shortfall of between $88 million and $115 million; at first, the system said it would close four schools, but now says the closings may total 12 this year or next. It also has proposed deep cuts among central office staff (154) and in paraprofessionals (261).

● Total job cuts: 415

● Teaching positions cut: none

● Furlough days: 7

● School closings: 4 to 12

● Program cuts: Board members are looking at slashing magnet and theme schools and other programs.

● Class size: Will increase by one to two students per class.

● Next: The DeKalb Citizens Planning Task Force will meet Tuesday and April 13 to discuss school closings. Public hearings will be May 6 and 11, and the School Board will vote on closings May 14.

Anonymous said...

We can afford 10 days of the 180 contact days.... Why make our kids and teachers suffer 180 bad days. Let's have the best 170 day year education.

The State of Georgia is broke.
It can't afford to pay for 180 school days. It is 10 day short of money. Why not reduce school by about 10 days?

Open + Transparent said...

"It can't afford to pay for 180 school days. It is 10 day short of money. Why not reduce school by about 10 days?"


Wow. That is the lazy, easy way out.

what do we hold most important? How much do we value the education of our children?

There is a valid arguement for a 185 or 190 school calendar, when we compare our students to those of countries the US economy competes against.

There is plenty of funding for a 180 school day year in Georgia. However, we citizens/taxpayers/parents have allowed administrators to place themselves and their bureaucracies ahead of the classroom and the teacher. Our boards of education have enabled and allowed the massive buildup.

Now that there isn't the incredible influx of property tax revenue in the state like there was in the 90's and early part of the decade, all of the sudden the only way out is furlough days, or a shorter school year, or not contributing to pension funds, etc., etc.

Title 1 funds can be spent in so many ways that directly benefit the classroom, instead of $400,000 trips to California.

Don't fall into the trap. There is enough property tax income, federal money and state money to run a solid, functional, and efficient school system. but only without a bloated Central Office.
Only without ridiculous made-up positions. Only without inefficient and unproductive departments. Only without managers, asst. principals, MIS staff, school police, etc. making high salaries in the 80's, 90's and 100's instead of in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. On what planet is it acceptable that the DCSS transportation head of special projects makes over $100,000 plus $20-$25k in benefits???

Again, don't fall into the trap. The money is there. The current system model is broken and unsustainable.

Anonymous said...

"On what planet is it acceptable that the DCSS transportation head of special projects makes over $100,000 plus $20-$25k in benefits???"

Harold Lewis received his promotion to transportation special projects and the ensuing salary increase immediately after he claimed he was sexually harassed by Pat Pope. You connect the dots.

I believe he was in MIS before. not sure how any job in MIS prepares one for transportation.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 3:48 pm
""DeKalb: County can’t lose its science jewel"

It's wonderful Dr. Konner's daughter benefited from Fernbank's SST program.

180 students out of 101,000 go through this program a year.

Anonymous said...

I believe he was in MIS before. not sure how any job in MIS prepares one for transportation.

Was he in a management position before? It is easy to move from one department to another, as long as it remains in a management capability. I've not seen many managers who know one single thing about what they are managing, but they get to because they have that title.

Anonymous said...

Yes. Harold Lewis was in MIS before he went to transportation. LOL - wouldn't you have guessed that he was in the MIS department?

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 9:41 pm

"The county anticipates a shortfall of between $88 million and $115 million; at first, the system said it would close four schools, but now says the closings may total 12 this year or next. It also has proposed deep cuts among central office staff (154) and in paraprofessionals (261). "

I guess Ms. Tyson and the BOE are busy beavers now - trying to save those 8,800 support and admin personnel jobs. Better to cut the paraprofessionals who work with students in the classroom and eliminate teacher positions through changing the 4x4 block schedule and increasing class sizes than risk those 8,800 support and admin jobs.

Maybe Ms. Tyson and the BOE can get DCSS to 40 students per classroom without parents even realizing it. It's always worked before. DCSS added 2,000 support and admin personnel in the last 3 years while decreasing teachers by 300.

DCSS bureaucracy: + 2000 support and DCSS students: - 300 teachers

Guess who wins?

Cerebration said...

I was under the impression that the paras to be cut were mostly in Pre-k. Anyone know?

Also - this doesn't make sense -

● Total job cuts: 415

● Teaching positions cut: none

● Furlough days: 7

● School closings: 4 to 12

● Program cuts: Board members are looking at slashing magnet and theme schools and other programs.

● Class size: Will increase by one to two students per class.

------

What exactly is the point of increasing class size if not to decrease the number of teachers - so what's with the bullet point stating that no teaching jobs will be lost?!!

Anonymous said...

Harold lewis was at mis, then fleet maintance, service center and now transportation. Don't know before these areas. He pretty much gets whatever he wants. I have heard many people say he never knows what he is doing. (clueless)

Anonymous said...

I think it is a common agreement that the kids lose due to losing paraprofessionals and keeping bloated programs and overpaid, over numbered managers. It is happening all over GA. Can something be done about it? Emailing the BOE and Tyson doesn't appear to help. The only idea I have is to pull the numbers that I see in the posts here and present them to the media, along with the question why this is happening. Have the media direct the questions to the BOE and Tyson. Let them answer or dodge those hard questions publicly. Does anyone have any other ideas?

Dekalbparent said...

Speaking of Title I, (re-posting this from another thread - forgive the redundancy) the one thing I don't have is numbers on the growth of DCSS employees attached to Title I from 2004 on. This, I think, would be interesting, if there has been growth, particularly in administrators.

The graduation rate in the DCSS Title I schools has risen, but I am not sure what other consistent trends I see. I will try to do similar analysis for other systems to see if DCSS is typical. (If so, then we need to re-examine how we are going about the education of disadvantaged kids in the metro area):

Went to Ga DOE site to get to get AYP figures as far back as I could. Earliest was 2004-05, most current 2007-08. Did the math. For discussion purposes, this is what DCSS is getting for its Title I bucks.

Total Title I budgeted funds:
04-05 -
05-06 up 10.2%
06-07 down 1.6%
07-08 up 8.8%

Percent of Title I schools making AYP:
04-05 71%
05-06 65.5%
06-07 76.5%
07-08 62%

Percent of Title I schools not making AYP:
04-05 28%
05-06 34.5%
06-07 23.5%
07-08 38%

Percent of Title I schools with Distinguished Improvement:
04-05 61.7%
05-06 52.4%
06-07 51.8%
07-08 38%

Percent of Title I schools with Commended (ADQ) Improvement:
04-05 8.6%
05-06 9.5%
06-07 15.3%
07-08 18.5%

Percent of Title I schools with Adequate Did Not Meet AYP status:
04-05 14.8%
05-06 15.5%
06-07 5.9%
07-08 20.7%

Percent of Title I schools with Needs Improvement - AYP status:
04-05 2.5%
05-06 3.6%
06-07 9.4%
07-08 5.4%

Percent of Title I schools with Needs Improvement status:
04-05 12.8%
05-06 19%
06-07 17.6%
07-08 17.4%

Percent of Title I schools in NI for 1 year:
04-05 3.7%
05-06 11.9%
06-07 11.8%
07-08 9.8%

Percent of Title I schools in NI for 2 years:
04-05 7.4%
05-06 2.4%
06-07 7.1%
07-08 3.3%

Percent of Title I schools in NI for 3 years:
04-05 1.2%
05-06 6%
06-07 4.7%
07-08 5.4%

Percent of Title I schools in NI for 4 years:
04-05 0%
05-06 0%
06-07 2.4%
07-08 2.2%

Percent of Title I schools in NI for 5 or more years:
04-05 2.5%
05-06 2.4%
06-07 1.2%
07-08 2.2%

Absent over 15 days:
04-05 12.3%
05-06 13.3%
06-07 13.7%
07-08 12.3%

Graduation rate:
04-05 52.6%
05-06 57.4%
06-07 67.4%
07-08 73%

Anonymous said...

@ Cerebration 11:07 pm

No teacher jobs will be eliminated, but teacher positions will be which means DCSS teacher numbers will be cut.

Hundreds of teachers who leave DCSS next year will not be replaced.

Last year for the 2009-10 school year, Lewis reduced the number of DCSS teachers by 275 using this same technique and no one was affected - except of course the teachers and students in the classroom.

See this DCCS webpage:
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/budget/
"Further proposed reductions include an increase to class sizes. The increase in class size will still keep DeKalb Schools below the state maximum requirements, prior to the state’s increase. This action will save $18.1 million and will reduce the staffing needs by 275 teachers."

That's how our teacher numbers went from 7,300 to 7,031.

Ms. Tyson thinks parents won't notice or care if a few more students are packed into the classroom and our teacher numbers decrease by hundreds. After all we must feed the support and admin machine of 8,800 strong.

Well, we are keeping the canine units. That spirited discussion by the BOE shows the dogs will be kept at full force even if the teachers won't.

Dekalbparent said...

Rats - I didn't do stats on CRCT and GHSGT - will do tomorrow. Inquiring minds want to know...

Dekalbparent said...

Test stats for DCSS Title I:

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on Math CRCT:
04-05 68.8%
05-06 70.1%
06-07 66.1%
07-08 65.1%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on Reading CRCT:
04-05 78.9%
05-06 74.2%
06-07 77.5%
07-08 84.1%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on ELA CRCT:
04-05 73.8%
05-06 71.5%
06-07 75.9%
07-08 78.8%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on Science CRCT:
04-05 71.2%
05-06 60.7%
06-07 46.1%
07-08 48.9%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on Social Studies CRCT:
04-05 78.1%
05-06 78.8%
06-07 74.8%
07-08 69.4%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on Math GHSGT:
04-05 79.8%
05-06 81.9%
06-07 83%
07-08 84.4%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on ELA GHSGT:
04-05 89.2%
05-06 90.4%
06-07 93.2%
07-08 84.4%

Percent of students meeting/exceeding standards on Science GHSGT:
04-05 43.4%
05-06 53%
06-07 59.5%
07-08 77%

Percent of students Social Studies GHSGT:
04-05 69%
05-06 72.6%
06-07 79%
07-08 77.5%

Anonymous said...

Do we seriously think we have board members getting serious about the looming crisis or are they coming to the fire with a bucket of water? It has been obvious for quite awhile that we needed to close schools as part of our cost reduction. Yet, these two school board members (along with the rest of the board) voted to delay the process for a year. Then, they were part of the group that supported closing only 4 schools this year. The inability of the board and the DCSS leadership to understand the real magnitude of the problem means that their "solutions" will just as likely exacerbate our long-term issues rather than fix them.

themommy said...

Anon 11:33pm (or anyone else that might know),

The administration has been very coy about teacher job losses. Apparently, first year teachers were told that their contracts might not be renewed.

Most Pre-K (by the way the lottery is Thursday, anyone know what is happening with pre-k) teachers are certainly not certified to teach anything but elementary school and there is a chance that some of those are only certified in early childhood, which I think only goes to grade 4.

Stripping all the small school magnet points and targetted assistance points indicates that many schools will have less staff than before.

If you combine 2 schools where there were 4 first grades, but now you only need three (because the classes are small), where does that extra teacher go?

In a strong economy, DCSS loses lots of teachers. Last year, that number was way down.

I really think DCSS administration is planning on teacher layoffs, they just aren't being honest about it.

Anonymous said...

Until I see the Board making cuts in the Central Office at least double what I have seen so far, I do not think they are serious.

Anonymous said...

I think we can dispense with the AYP numbers - they were bogus to being with and they are bogus now. In the very near future the dreaded NCLB and AYP terms will be part of the nightmare history of education in this country. Part of the new education legislation will dump the provision of NCLB that produced AYP, pass-fail school grades based heavily on test scores.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 6:53 pm
I think the AYP/NCLB numbers are extremely important because they have been used by DCSS administration as the reason to increase Central Office staff to 1,239 (1 admin person for every 5.5 teachers).

AYP/NCLB numbers have also been used by DCSS admin as the reason to spend $8,000,000 on America's Choice (and whatever the renewal fee is), $8,000,000 a year on the 80 Instructional Coaches, $1,400,000 a year on Springboard, and the list goes on and on.

If DCSS admin is going to use AYP/NCLB figures to support the funding of programs rather than spending directly on the classroom (i.e. teachers and students), then they need to be held accountable with those figures.

Anonymous said...

Great strand by Maureen Downey at her AJC blog called:
"Metro systems - bloated, inefficient and unfocused.”

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/03/14/metro-systems-bloated-inefficient-and-unfocused/

Here is one of her questions:

Why do Cobb and DeKalb have so many more employees per 1,000 pupils than Gwinnett?

Cobb has 144 employees per 1,000 pupils while DeKalb has 157 and Gwinnett has only 113. Put another way, DeKalb has 39 percent more employees per pupil than Gwinnett and Cobb has 27 percent more employees per pupil than Gwinnett.

I have long felt that DeKalb and Cobb schools are like the Atlanta schools and government in that one of their primary purposes is to be a jobs program. By the way, the Atlanta schools are now in line with Gwinnett at 115 employees per 1000 pupils.

Why does DeKalb have the highest employee to student ratio in the metro area?

We certainly don't have these numbers in teachers.

Does Ms. Tyson and the BOE even look at these figures?

Anonymous said...

AYP is bogus and always has been. A fraud perpetuated by NCLB.

You can have a school with low test scores and that school can still make AYP. Because the school does make AYP, everything with that school is assumed to be "ok" - which is far from the truth. Conversely, you can have a school with the overwhelming majority of students with high test scores, but with one small sub-group does not make the test score "cut", and the whole school is deemed a "failure". There is a problem with that logic.

Anonymous said...

Student and parents need to use the programs that the school system has. What about DOLA? My son took DOLA and graduated early and I'm doing the same for my daughter. The teachers there are competent, kind, and help the kids.

Anonymous said...

Assuming the job ratio posted is accurate, I have suggested to my Board member that they look at the 2,400 jobs created in the support area over the past 2 years for places to cut first.
If they have not helped teachers and administrators on the school house then they should be eliminated.
It is hard to believe this much additional support when it calculates to 100 jobs per month added from 2008 to 2010. How do you do that???
With Dr. Lewis providing the Board such bad information, not sure how they can make reasonable reductions.

Anonymous said...

It appears that there will be significant cut backs in classroom teacher jobs in DeKalb due to the nature of the BOE budget cuts/changes.

a) If you add more students to the classroom, you need less teachers;
b) If you take away magnet points, schools will probably lose teachers;
c) If you consolidate schools, not as many teachers will be needed in the remaining schools;
d) If teachers at Lakeside, Chamblee, MLK, Dunwoody and Tucker all teach 6 out of 7 classes, they will lose teachers.

Schools (and their students) that get hit with two or three of the above will really be hurt.

Cerebration said...

That's it in a nutshell, Anon! Way to put it all together. This is really bothersome to me that most of these cuts seem to have the classroom in the crosshairs in one way or another... they're speaking in semantics - but these are all classroom cuts in the end.

Anonymous said...

Well, one more thing that is going to have an impact is schools having teachers and administrators deciding to retire, where they will be replaced with family and friends from the Central Office, many of whom have not been in a school building for awhile.

Anonymous said...

"The graduation rate in the DCSS Title I schools has risen"

Are more students in DeKalb because administrators force teachers not to give F's and look the other way, including chronic absenteeism?

Anonymous said...

I haven't heard anyone mention cutting elementary counselors. It seems like that would be an easy thing to live without.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that there staff positions in the elementary schools specifically for managing the Promethean boards?

M G said...

Is it true that there staff positions in the elementary schools specifically for managing the Promethean boards?

Not at my elementary school. The only "managing" that happens is that the CTSS locks up all our tools for the board each summer and re-issues them during pre-planning.

Anonymous said...

Below is how teachers in DeKalb Schools reach class sizes of 30+ students.

Here are my two sources:
http://www.open.georgia.gov/sta/entryPoint.aud
and
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/files/3C2819BD7CDE4BA6B8BE01FC4A39343C.pdf

Total DeKalb Schools employees: 15,859
Admin and Support non-teaching personnel: 8,828 (56%)
Teachers and Media Specialists: 7,031 (44%)
(Source: DCSS Superintendent’s FAQ page)

Numbers of DCSS teachers NOT grade level teachers or content area teachers: 2981
including.....
Library Media Specialists: 161
Special Area Teachers: 1369
(Special Education Adapted PE, Pre-K Sp.Ed., Psycho-Ed Sp.Ed., Sp. Ed Interrelated, Sp. Ed. Specialist, Sp. Ed. Autistic, Sp. Ed. Emotional Behavior, Sp. Ed. Hearing Impaired, Teacher of Mild Intellectual, Teacher of Moderate Intellectual, Teacher of Orthopedic Impairment, Teacher of Other Health Impairment, Teacher Of Severely Intell. Impaired, Teacher of specific Learning Disability,
Teacher of Visually Impaired, Speech –Language Pathologist,

Adapted PE teacher: 1,369

Other Instructional Providers: 42

Instructional Specialists (Art, PE, Music, Band, Orchestra elementary teachers): 445

Gifted:87

ESOL:154

Early Intervention Specialists: 128

Instructional Coaches (America’s Choice Instructional Coaches, Literacy Coaches and Graduation Coaches): 80

Exploratory Teachers: 46

Hospital Homebound: 1

Vocational Teachers: 207

Related Vocational Teachers: 11

World Languages in high school and Connections teachers in middle school: 250 (estimated)

Approximately 4,050 employees out of 7,031 teachers teach grades 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 and the content areas of science, math, Language Arts and Social Studies.

So complete responsibility for AYP rests on 4,050 employees out of 15,859 total employees. All 101,000 students in DeKalb have to take the 4 content areas of math, science, Language Arts, and social studies regardless if they take classes in special areas.

Complicating and adding to class sizes are AP programs, IB programs, and magnet schools. These numerous programs are often set at such a low class size that the rest of the grade level and content area teachers in Dekalb Schools must take on even more students.

Do you see how class sizes rise to over 30+? Do you see why grade level and content area teachers have the most paperwork and the most pressure? Do you see why we have difficulty attracting the best of our science and math brains into DeKalb Schools?Do you see how it will get worse with the BOE proposals.

Anonymous said...

Pat Pope files for annulment earlier this month saying she was "unknowingly" married to someone else. Records say she had filed for divorce from her previous spouse in 2001 and did not know that it was dismissed.

AJC article:
http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/pope-files-for-annulment-372783.html

Anonymous said...

Complicating and adding to class sizes are AP programs, IB programs, and magnet schools. These numerous programs are often set at such a low class size that the rest of the grade level and content area teachers in Dekalb Schools

There are no class size limits on AP courses.

Anonymous said...

No class-size limits in IB either.

Anonymous said...

Poor Pat Pope.

AP and IB classes if the system wants to receive the extra funding because of the number of gifted kids in there have to stick to the same class size limits as all high school gifted classes.

(A student doesn't have to be labeled gifted to take AP/IB.)

The school can also use the formula that allows for a mix of gifted and other students.

Regardless, once the number passes that point, any extra funds for gifted students in that class are lost.

Anonymous said...

AP courses have no "label" such as gifted because any student can take these courses. Students, gifted as such, as not "tracked" with regards to these classes. These are considered college-level classes and we all know there is no such thing as a class limit in college.

Anonymous said...

The "gifted" label follows the child, not the course.

Anonymous said...

I agree with other poster. DeKalb does not limit class size of AP courses; there is no gifted limit applicable to them. My child's AP class is huge.

However, many IB courses are very, very tiny because so few students take them.

Anonymous said...

In many high schools in DCSS AP class sizes are considerably lower than than the regular classes.

For example, if only 16 students sign up for AP Chemistry or AP Calculus, the class size will be 16. This is unlike regular science classes that all students must take and which are always filled to the maximum class size. There is no class size limit set on AP unless you consider the limit to be how many students sign up for them.

Schools in DCSS do not refuse to offer an AP just because 30 students don't sign up for the class. In addition, even when administrators pushes kids to take APs, those students who were not good AP candidates to begin with often struggle with the AP and end up transferring out of the AP and into a regular high school class. APs "self limiting" in many schools. I believe there is a minimum class size for an AP - is it 12?

IB class sizes in high school are often lower because you must pply to the program and qualify for IB in high school. If the entire universe of IB students is over 32 in a grade level, then the class is split - that's how Druid Hills has 2 classes of IB under 20 students (don't jump on me - I'm all for small IB classes).

Anytime you don't draw on the entire high school student body, there will be class sizes much lower in all special programs.

This is a good thing for students. AP and IB absolutely should be small classes. These are much more rigorous classes than the regular high school curriculum. Students who are willing to take on the additional workload need smaller classes. AP classes also require a tremendous amount of additional work on the part of the AP instructor.

But any time one teacher has a smaller class, another teacher will have a larger class because there are is a finite amount of teachers to teach a finite amount of students. It's just mathematics.

Anonymous said...

In addition, even when administrators pushes kids to take APs, those students who were not good AP candidates to begin with often struggle with the AP and end up transferring out of the AP and into a regular high school class.

Not sure how it works in other school systems, but in DCSS, once you step the first toe in an AP class you cannot transfer out - the student is in for the duration.

Dekalbparent said...

As Anon 9:08 explained very well, AP and IB classes are self-limited, not limited by an externally imposed standard. Nor are they counted by the high schools as gifted classes, so those state regs do not apply.

The problem is the same problem we keep bringing up - too few teachers for the number of students in the schools. This is the issue we need to keep focused on - the issue DCSS and the BOE are stepping around.

If we don't trim the non-teaching positions and the programs that serve too few students and/or do not improve the student's education, DCSS is on a greased slide to the bottom.

Anonymous said...

Currently, DCSS has 8,800 non teaching positions and 7,00 teaching positions.

Cut non-teaching positions by 1,000 and raise the teaching population by 500. If Ms. Tyson and the BOE had those objectives, our employee balance would be:

7,800 non teaching and 7,500 teaching. That's not as good as our teacher to non-teacher ratio was several years ago, but it's a start, and it certainly would go a long way towards balancing the budget while adding teachers. Other monies could be freed up as we jettison expensive programs that cost millions of dollars a year with no accountability.

That's how off track DCSS has gotten that Ms. Tyson and the BOE won't look at the numbers.

Square Peg said...

Are AP and IB classes why high schools seem to have so few gifted students, at least for budget purposes? Because gifted students are said to be a significant part of the magic which allows Kittredge to have small classes and lots of specials teachers, I looked up some gifted enrollment counts in the "FY2010 Approved Budget" pdf. I was very surprised by the low number of gifted students at several high schools, and wonder whether these schools are underfunded as a result.

A very dramatic example is Druid Hills, which is listed as having 16 gifted students (4 per grade). That's hard to believe. Its feeder, Shamrock, is listed as having 74 (25 per grade).

Chamblee High: 123
Chamblee Middle: 184

Lakeside: 120
Henderson: 186

Tucker High: 48
Tucker Middle: 97

Other schools with a lot of gifted students don't have as much dropoff. Stephenson MS/HS, Chapel Hill/SW Dekalb, and Peachtree/Dunwoody hold fairly steady in terms of average number of gifted per grade.

Note that except for DSA, which has no middle school, and Dunwoody, all the Dekalb schools on the 2008 or 2009 Newsweek "Best" lists for having lots of AP/IB students (Chamblee, Lakeside, Druid Hills, Tucker) have a dropoff in the gifted count compared to their feeder middle. So maybe access to AP/IB classes means giving up gifted classes and their lower student/teacher ratios - can anybody confirm?

Nevertheless, I'd much rather my children be in large AP classes, even if the classes doesn't qualify as gifted, than no AP classes.

Cerebration said...

Great data, Anon 12:03 AM. Thanks for digging that up - it was obviously a lot of work. Everyone, please share the data above with your board reps. Somehow, they need to see the light - we are WAY out of balance.

They will respond - Oh, that's Title 1 money - or Those are Title 1 jobs. But just imagine if that money was spent to lower class size and hire many more teachers in Title 1 schools - teachers who could work more directly with students every day.

Anonymous said...

"Cobb has 144 employees per 1,000 pupils while DeKalb has 157 and Gwinnett has only 113. Put another way, DeKalb has 39 percent more employees per pupil than Gwinnett and Cobb has 27 percent more employees per pupil than Gwinnett."

Maybe we do not have too many people-maybe we have too many schools?

One assumes the more schools you have, the more nonteaching staff you need-since each location in addition to teachers needs one or more assistant principal, cafeteria workers, janitors, secretaries, clerks, and security guards for middle and high schools. Twenty 23 more principals and a portion of an MIS person or CTSS (some are shared).
Teachers follow FTE counts so you have appproximately the same number of teachers at any combination of locations.


DeKalb County:
147 schools and centers
83 Elementary schools

20 Middle schools
22 High schools
18 Centers

Fulton County
58 Elementary Schools, grades K-12
19 Middle Schools, grades 6-8
16 High Schools, grades 9-12 (includes two open campus high schools)

Cobb County:
Total Number of Schools – 114
• Elementary Schools – 68
• Middle Schools - 25
• High Schools - 16
• Open Campus High School - 1
• Special Education Centers - 2
• Adult Education Center - 1
• Performance Learning Center - 1

Atlanta public schools
Traditional schools 93
Elementary schools 57
Middle schools 15
Single-gender academies 2
High schools 19
Nontraditional programs 2
Charter schools 7
Adult learning center 1

Total APS learning sites 103

Gwinnett County: 124 schools-sorry didn’t find a breakdown and too lazy to do one

So of the list DeKalb has 46 more schools than Atlanta, 33 more than Cobb, 44 more than Fulton,and 23 more schools than Gwinett. I repeat-

Maybe we do not have too many people-maybe we have too many schools?

Anonymous said...

A slightly different look at the numbers

Full time employess now-13,873
Part time (less than half time) now-1,986

Total employees 15,859 (the FTE is less due part time)

School based employees-14,620
Central office general fund-982
Central office federally funded and mandated (can't be cut)-257

Teachers/media specialists-7031

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 10:50 am

Only 44% of DCSS employees are teachers while 56% are admin and support. I agree that DCSS has too many schools. However, 8,800 admin and service employees cannot be solely attributed to the 12 schools that are on the chopping block. Dr. Lewis has grown admin and support by over 2,000 employees while he cut teachers by 300.

Anonymous said...

"However, 8,800 admin and service employees cannot be solely attributed to the 12 schools that are on the chopping block"

No one ever said they were but when you compare DCSS to other systems you have to take into account that more locations means more support staff. Moreover, every school that is under 450 students loses DCSS moeny in state appropriations. If we consolidated so that every school had 500 students we would have more income from the state and less staff making us comparable to other systems. Most of the support staff in DCSS are associated with individual school locations. A certain portion of the support staff and admininstration are mandated and support by federal funds (special ed, title I) DCSS has the highest rate of free and reduced lunch students in the state-it is now over 68% (up from last year). Gwinnett doesn't have to have all those mandated positions. We should have consolidated long ago when we did not have a shortfall. Moreover, every system in the metroplex has a serious shortfall and are facing problems of cuts. Even Gwinnett which is gaining students and opening schools faces a 100 million dollars of cuts.

Finally your figures are incorrect. The latest employee count is 13873 full time and 7031 of those are teachers or media specialists (teachers in my opinion). That means teachers comprise just of 50% of the entire full time staff. If you want to take the part time employees into account-some of which are teachers but all of whom work 19 hours a week or less and do not get benefits (30% of the employee costs)we have 14,400 full time equivalent employees 49% of who are teachers or librarians. There are 982 central office staff who are not mandated or federally funded.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 10:55 am
"Finally your figures are incorrect. The latest employee count is 13873 full time and 7031 of those are teachers or media specialists (teachers in my opinion)."

13,873 total employees used to be on the DCSS Fast Facts page, but the new figure is 15,859 employees. This figure is on all 3 DCSS webpages:

1. Fast Facts page:
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/about/fastfacts.html

2. DCSS's FY2011 Budget Process and Information webpage (as a .pdf file named Budget Fact Sheet)
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/files/795BF9ED3F3D479294A6DD1DE042E5C9.pdf

3. DCSS's FY2011 Budget Process and Information webpage (as a .pdf file named Frequently Asked Questions)
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/files/3C2819BD7CDE4BA6B8BE01FC4A39343C.pdf

The percentages pf teachers vary from the Fast Facts page to Budget and FAQ pages.

One the Fast Facts page, DCSS says it has 53.1% of its employees as Teachers and Media Specialists and Cpunselors out of 15,859 employees. This would give DCSS 8,421 Teachers, Media Specialists and Counselors.

On the Budget and FAQ pages, DCSS states it has 7,031 Teachers and Media Specialists and they comprise 44% of the total employees.

Which webpage is correct?

Anonymous said...

On the Fast Facts webpage, DCSS has listed that the county has 101,079 students.
Student Count:

* 49,142 elementary school students
* 22,647 middle school students
* 29,290 high school students

On the Budget and FAQ pages, DCSS has listed that the county has 97,690 students.

This is a difference of 3,389 students.

Which webpage has the correct information?

DCSS should publish the most current and correct data on their website.

It's not good customer service to parents/taxpayers who want to know information about pupil/teacher ratio, numbers of admin and support personnel, class size, etc. when conflicting information is published on the DCSS official website.

Perhaps one of the 1,239 Central Office personnel could liaison with MIS personnel who run the website to ensure parents/taxpayers get the correct information.

Cerebration said...

Oddly, DeKalb reported 99,406 students to the state for the official 09/10 FTE count in October - now they claim we have somehow gained an additional 1594 students??? In 5 months??? Where did they come from??? Are we getting FTE credit for them from the state - since these weren't reported in October?

For the report, go to this link at the state DOE and ask for the number by district.

http://app3.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/fte_pack_enrollgrade.entry_form

M G said...

The FTE count for second semester was on March 4. Not sure if those numbers are available yet.

Cerebration said...

Should be interesting - the March 2009 count was 98,747 --

Where did all of these new students come from? I thought we had dwindling enrollments - thus the school closings.

Anonymous said...

The higher students numbers might have come from Henry, Rockdale and Clayton county families sending their kids across the line. Don't worry we won't verify you live here we just want warm bodies. Most are probably going to the new Arabia Mtn. High located in their backyards.

Anonymous said...

13,873 total employees used to be on the DCSS Fast Facts page, but the new figure is 15,859-

fast facts does not distinguish full and part time employees I know my figures are right because they use them for fast facts udpdates

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 11:05 am
"13,873 total employees used to be on the DCSS Fast Facts page, but the new figure is 15,859-

fast facts does not distinguish full and part time employees I know my figures are right because they use them for fast facts udpdates"

Thank you. However,the problem is that the figures on DCSS's Fast Facts page do not match the figures on the Budget Fact Sheet page or the FAQ Questions page.

The Fast Facts webpage says 53.1% of our employees are teachers,media specialists, and counselors.

The Budget Sheet webpage says 44% of our employees are teachers and media specialists.

Fast Facts page:
53.1% of 15,859 employees = 8,421 teachers, media specialists and counselors.

Budget Fact Sheet:
44.3% of 15,859 employees = 7,031 teachers and media specialists.

That's a discrepancy of 1,390 employees.

I know DCSS has approximately 245 counselors, but that still leaves over 1,100 teachers listed on the Fast Facts page that disappear on the Budget Fact Sheet.

Parents/taxpayers deserve accurate information from the school system they pay for.

I'm sure you're giving the administrators and website personnel in MIS the correct numbers. They just can't seem to calculate the percentages and provide consistent, accurate information openly and transparently to the citizens of DeKalb County.

Do Ms. Tyson and the BOE even know the correct numbers?